When Mary Katherine Gallagher debuted on Saturday Night Live in 1995, the character became an instant sensation. A nerdy Catholic schoolgirl with severe stage fright and lofty dreams of an acting career, she made over 18 appearances during Molly Shannon’s initial tenure on the show. While her antics varied from sketch to sketch; one day she’s auditioning for a high school talent show; the next, she’s hiding in musical guest Tina Turner’s dressing room – you could always count on Gallagher inserting a monologue from one of her favorite TV shows or movies or getting knocked over by a stack of folding chairs.
“Mary is an exaggerated version of me and what I really was like as a little girl: anxious, overly dramatic, accident-prone,” Shannon told Eskom. “It’s great that people are responding to this character that really comes from my heart.”
In fact, Gallagher was so beloved by fans that she was instantly elevated to movie star status: In Bruce McCulloch’s Superstar in 1999, she tries to impress the boy of her dreams (Will Ferrell) by winning the school’s genius award. But the film’s plot is secondary to Shannon, who absolutely lights up the screen in her first leading role. Her devotion to the matter is unparalleled, whether she’s actively pursuing a relationship with a tree or learning that her parents were killed in a “bizarre Irish step-dancing accident.”
The 1980s and ’90s were a golden age for movies based on Saturday Night Live sketches, with hits of the era like “The Blues Brothers” or “Wayne’s World,” but “Superstar” was the only film starring a female character. (It also did well at the box office, earning more than twice its production budget.) Since then, strong home video sales and cable reruns have ensured the film’s legacy as a true cult classic that people still seek out and watch.
“Mary has a pure soul, and I think that’s why people love the character,” says Shannon.
To celebrate the 25th anniversary of Superstar, Shannon met up with Eskume to learn all things Mary Katherine Gallagher.
Askum: Tell me about the origins of Mary — I read in your memoir that you developed her while studying theater at NYU?
Molly Shannon: I created Mary while auditioning for Fool’s Day, a midnight comedy show at NYU’s little black box theater. The movie, directed by Madeleine Olnek and starring Adam Sandler, was so popular that lines formed around the block. One of the audition exercises is to walk in the door and make up a character on the spot. Madeleine played a very arrogant director, and you must impress him, so I walked in the door and said, “Hi, I’m Mary Katherine Gallagher!” I kept improvising and the Follies team loved the role so much that they cast her in the show.
Is this Mary similar to the version we got on SNL?
Something like this. I’ve forgotten some of the details, but the show is a “whodunnit” and Mary is the killer. I was wearing a red jacket and red capri corduroy pants, probably from a thrift store. I soon became famous on campus—and soon people started telling me, “You should be on Saturday Night Live!” It was my last year of studying theater at NYU, so playing Mary was a real turning point for me because I realized how much I loved comedy. After graduation, I moved to Los Angeles and created The Rob and Molly Show with my partner Rob Muir, where we would perform a 55-minute hit show with wine and music. I did a scene where Mary was auditioning for a David Lynch film, so I had to develop her in front of a live audience and really get to know her strengths. A few years later, when I got the chance to audition for Saturday Night Live, I had really perfected the character.
How did Mary perform during her SNL audition?
There was a woman who claimed to be a “local talent scout,” but she wasn’t. She was just friends with some of the businessmen on the show and she would go to comedy shows around Los Angeles pretending to be a talent scout. I’d been doing my show for a long time, so she knew about me, but I think she got jealous when she heard that other people from SNL had come to see me. She wanted some control over my trajectory and said, “Whatever you do, you better not be that school girl.” But she acted like she really knew Lorne’s choices, and that I would never have been on the show if I had auditioned with Mary, so I listened to her.
When you get on Saturday Night Live, let me know how to get Mary Katherine Gallagher’s first sketch with Gabriel Byrne to air.
It’s a constant struggle to get your material into the show each week. When new people like Will Ferrell and Sherri Oteri came on, they’d always be playing characters they played in the ground band in each other’s offices, and I’d be in the corner, like, I got the character too! I remember showing my Mary pitch to a writer and he started tearing it apart: “The reason this bit doesn’t work is because it’s not a real joke, it doesn’t really make sense, and it’s not funny. It was a fun surprise for everyone when I read it to Mary at the table, but even so, I still don’t think they fully understood the character.
You have to see Mary Katherine Gallagher perform to really “get” it.
We were sitting at the table read, [saying] “Mary fell on the chair, Mary did a backflip.” They had no idea how crazy I would get. I had been playing this character for years in my show at that point, so I knew she would drive the audience crazy. Often during rehearsals, the one that Lorne really believed in would be put at the top of the show and Mary would be put at the bottom. I remember going crazy during rehearsals and it came out really well. I was very physical and raw – I threw myself on those chairs and I put my heart and soul into the performance. Everyone would come to Lorne’s office in costume and on air to see what the live show was about, and Mary worked her way up from the bottom of the lineup. My life changed a lot after that.
Was Mary a quick cognition?
That’s exactly what it feels like. After the first one aired, people started coming up to me on the street and saying, “Oh my god, you’re like my sister!” The reaction was crazy because people were laughing, but they also seemed to really connect with her.
Has any guest host asked Mary Katherine Gallagher to do a sketch?
I’m not sure if Aerosmith asked for it or just mentioned that he thought she was interesting. Usually if I feel like it I do it.’
Are there any presenters who don’t like this character?
I never got that impression. But I remember when Tina Turner came on the show, she was living the good life in Switzerland with her new young husband and had no idea who Mary was. We asked her to do a sketch, and her makeup artist, Kevin Aucoin, told her, “You have to do this.” So we thanked Kevin for the sketch where Mary enters Tina’s dressing room. Tina is so gracious and wonderful.
Do you have a personal favorite Mary Katherine Gallagher sketch?
I really enjoy doing these things. I love Aerosmith, so the song I did with Steven Tyler, “Sweet Emotion,” was fun. He’s so naughty. I always loved being involved with music. I also really enjoyed working with Gwyneth Paltrow and Matthew Broderick. There’s not one I don’t like!
On the subject of superstars – whose idea was it to give Mary her own movie?
That’s a great question and I don’t really know the answer. Probably Lorne and Shirley Lansing at Paramount. They immediately approved the project after reading the script on the plane. She’s a legend, so I remember thinking, oh, Mary Katherine Gallagher and Shirley Lansing worked together! Mary Katherine Gallagher admired Shirley – she would read Shirley’s memoirs and write letters. It was a big deal for a woman to direct her own movie at that time. I mean, it still is.
I see that Steve is the writer of Superstar, but can you tell me about the development process of turning Mary from a sketch character into a feature-length film heroine?
Before the wonderful Bruce McCulloch came on board as director, Steve and I would walk around our neighborhoods in California and bounce ideas off each other. It always made sense to start with what the character wanted, what did Mary Katherine Gallagher want the story to do going forward? There was nothing on this planet she wanted more than to kiss a boy. How would she achieve this goal? She had to be a superstar!
One thing I noticed when watching the first sketch of Mary Katherine Gallagher was that you set up a lot of her backstory that would be carried forward in Superstar – mostly about Mary loving to watch old TV movies and being raised by her grandmother in a small family.
When Mary talks about her grandmother, she’s actually referring to me and my father, Jim Shannon. Mary’s life is a bit like my life – my mother died when I was very young and my father raised me. Mary is an exaggerated version of me and how I really felt as a little girl after my mother died – anxious, overly dramatic, accident-prone. I’m writing an exaggerated version of myself, so it’s nice that people are responding to this character that really comes from my heart. My father always told me I resembled a young Elizabeth Taylor a lot. He really loved old Hollywood, so we would watch old movies together, like Easter Parade and Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Using our TV tray. We would talk about acting and listen to Judy Garland records.
Do you remember playing any other episodes before you decided to enter the high school talent show competition?
We knew that was the general direction we wanted to go in, but there was also a version that Mary lied and said she was pregnant with God’s child. In another version, Mary would have to continue taking Ritalin, but that would have been a much different, darker movie. The head of Paramount at the time said, “I don’t want to make a movie where Mary is numbed by drugs,” which is fair enough!
Did you film “Superstar” in between seasons of “Saturday Night Live”?
I think we just started filming Saturday Night Live, so for a while I was doing both at the same time. I remember flying between Toronto and New York quite frequently. Sometimes Lorne would send writers to Toronto to help me write sketches, and I would fly back for rehearsals and live performances, then take a red eye back to Toronto.
This sounds terrible.
Yeah, but Lorne really took care of me. It’s his show and his movie. Plus, honestly, it looks pretty glamorous.
Did Lorne give you any words of wisdom during shooting?
He was involved every step of the way and had a lot of trust in me. Lorne liked Mary Katherine Gallagher and was very happy with the script. At one point I mentioned that Will and I were worried we were too old to be playing high school kids, and Lorne said, “Don’t worry, it’ll be more fun that way.”
How did you feel on the first day of filming?
I was definitely nervous because it was my first time acting in a movie, but it was definitely a dream. I stayed in this gorgeous hotel where there were costume fittings and dance rehearsals – it was like being back in drama school again. It’s also fun to work with people your own age. I would say that all these kids, like Will and Elaine [Hendrix], would go out often after work. I remember my therapist told me that I had to take care of myself and that it was a long haul, so I quickly realized that I couldn’t go out every night. Everyone was great, but I didn’t have much social interaction because I had to work so much.
What is your main memory from the filming process?
In real life I had gone through a breakup before filming began. That really helped the emotion of the pool scene because I was really sad. I remember being completely devastated when initially Mary was supposed to ask Slater, “Do you think I’m ugly?” Our wonderful producer Susan Carvin said, “I thought Mary should have said, ‘Do you think I’m ugly?'” “Beautiful? My last line with Evian was funny, “I’m sorry you didn’t win, I guess you didn’t know you were competing against a superstar!” Seriously fuck that guy.
What improvised scenes do you remember?
I think it mostly depends on the script. We added a scene at the end where I talk to my breasts in the mirror, which was based on how I felt growing up. That’s when I was thinking about what happens to your body and you have to wear a bra for the first time at that age. It was all about my breasts, puberty and losing my mother. Colleen and I wrote this piece during our lunch break and asked Bruce if we could do the play together. He wasn’t really interested until the production team said we could do a quick cheat session between sets. I worked really hard to get that scene on film.
I think the thing that made me laugh the most on a recent rewatch was when you slammed the door shut and repeatedly yelled “You’re horrible!”
I think the script literally says “Mary slammed the door seventeen times” or something like that. The studio door actually broke! I hit it so hard it broke and they had to reinstall the hinge.
What’s it like working with the amazing Glynis Johns?
She is such a beautiful woman. She is exactly what you thought she would be based on Mary Poppins Returns. She always comes to my hotel for a cup of tea and talks about our personalities. Sometimes she would get confused during shooting and call me Molly instead of Mary, but she was very professional. Did you know that she passed away recently? She lived to be 100!
Do you remember how he felt when that was the only swear word he got in the movie?
“You better figure it out!” Oh my god, she was hysterical. We were allowed to keep the “crap” but we still got a PG-13 rating, and I remember she was so happy when she said that line. She really enjoyed the comedy and Bruce got along so well with her. He was great at talking to her and making her feel comfortable.
Do you remember filming anything that was cut from the final movie?
In the original script Mary lost the talent contest, but in a way, she gained self-actualization at the end of the day. It was still quite a happy ending, but we did a test screening and the audience didn’t like it. They really wanted her to win, so we reshot the final scene.
Are you satisfied with the finished film?
I know I’m biased, but I think it’s great! I still can’t believe I’m the main character in the movie. The whole development process was so much fun and working with Lorne, Bruce and Steve was a very gratifying creative experience. Seeing this movie and feeling proud of it was absolutely a dream come true. Then the posters started appearing on billboards all over Los Angeles and I really felt like a superstar. The night it opened, I went to different theaters in Burbank.
What do you remember seeing during these screenings?
I would sneak into different theaters wearing a baseball cap. I usually sit in the back of the theater and when the show starts, I say some prayers and thank God. Sometimes I sit near people, and once a kid turned to look at me during the movie, his eyes wide. He looked at his mom and said, “I think that woman is a superstar!”
Damn it, she was right!
I went to several screenings and when the movie finished, there would always be someone coming out of the theater yelling “Superstar!” which would get me really excited. Then when Halloween comes, all these people dress up as the characters. It grew and turned into this cult classic and people still quote that dialogue to me today.
Has anyone since the late 1990s run up to you and yell “Superstar!”?
Yes, and I never get tired of it! From the first time I played Mary until now, it has never stopped. One time, my boyfriend and I were sitting in a restaurant in New York, having breakfast by the window, when someone pressed his face against the mirror and yelled “Superstar!” My boyfriend looked up, and no. He said nothing and went right back to eating. People always like to tell me to play my role, I don’t want to draw attention to myself, but I play it quietly. Sometimes I think it would be fun to just do a little “Superstar!” under my breath.
Whenever I do something even glamorous, I say, “Do you know what this does now?” Top Model documentary time!
That was one of my favorite days of shooting. It’s funny because Christy Turlington was at one of my book parties in New York a few years ago. She came with my friend the designer Clare Vivier and we took a photo together. I didn’t think about it until afterward, but I thought, Oh my god, this is like a superstar!
Did you face any backlash from Catholics or Catholic organizations who didn’t like the character?
I’m not a devout Catholic anymore, but I was raised Catholic and the character of Mary certainly reflects that. This is not Monty Python and I want to make it clear that God was very important to her and she prayed every day. But we did get some letters from people who didn’t find her interesting. This was before the Internet really allowed for direct feedback, so people would send handwritten notes, and I remember getting some from the Catholic Church. Everyone would put something like that on the SNL bulletin board, and I remember reading the bulletin board and thinking, well, the archdiocese doesn’t like Mary.
If you were to bring Mary back for a sequel in 2024, what do you think she would do?
I always thought she might be interested in studying psychology or understanding how trauma affects the brain. I always thought she would do something diligently.
I thought she might be a real housewife, but I like your idea better.
But here’s the funny thing – Mary can be funny in many different situations. Will she be a mother? Is she a student? Where does she work?
You last played Mary for SNL’s 40th anniversary special in 2015. Are you interested in reuniting with her?
I haven’t really thought about it. I recently thought it might be fun to play her on Broadway or play Mary Cabaret incorporating music. I would love to do that. I’m all for bringing her back to her proper potential.
Looking back 25 years after Superstar, why do you think the film and Mary Katherine Gallagher still have such a popular following?
I think it’s Mary’s sense of hope. She’s a survivor – her parents died, she went through some tragic things, but she was able to get through it. She bled a little bit, but she was tough as nails. There’s a purity of emotion there, and I think that’s why people connect with that character. She felt awkward and a bit out of place at school. She feels lonely and isolated and she just wants to be loved. Who can’t connect with that feeling at some point in their life?
This conversation has been edited and condensed.
