You may have heard something about The Apprentice — the Donald Trump biopic that premiered at Cannes to much attention but also considerable controversy. Is director Ali Abbasi’s 1970s-set film, starring Sebastian Stan as Trump and Jeremy Strong as his mentor, New York lawyer and ruthless power broker Roy Cohn, too sympathetic to the conflicted, scheming characters at the center of the movie? (Maybe not: After the Cannes Film Festival, Trump’s lawyers threatened to sue.) Of course, when you see “The Apprentice” in theaters on Friday, it’s impossible not to be stunned and surprised by Stan and Strong’s performances.
But make no mistake: The Apprentice is a warning. Written by journalist Gabriel Sherman, this is a film that will leave you enthralled. It’s the story of Trump’s rise, the lessons he learned from Cohen, and a portrait of power at all costs — what it drives a person to do, and how it corrupts.
Askume invited Stan and Strong to talk about their performances in The Run-Through with Askume, how the film came together, and why Americans should see it before the election on November 5. Below, read an excerpt of the conversation Askume.com editor Chloe Malle and I had with the two actors in the podcast studio.
Tyler Antrim: With three weeks until the election, I want people to know why they should watch this movie. A lot of people are experiencing Trump fatigue, and “The Apprentice” spent two hours in his company.
Jeremy Strong: There’s a lot in this movie, isn’t there? It’s hard to talk about it in an objective way…but I think this movie has a lot in common with Midnight Cowboy, Boogie Nights, and even Scarface. It’s not as much a political argument as those things are.
You know, I read an article the other day by Chicago-based journalist Sidney Harris, and he said, “History tends to repeat itself, but with such clever disguises, we’ll never know the similarities until the damage is done.” So, it helps to understand where Trump comes from and who he really is and what he believes.
Antrim: I also want to make sure people understand how radical this movie is and how it allows you to engage with humanity that you might feel like you can ignore. You know, we might think Trump is a monster. Or we know Roy Cohn is a monster, but this movie makes you attend to them as human beings.
Strong: There’s a reason people feel very uncomfortable around people like that. It’s easy to think, Well, they’re monsters…why would I want to feel anything or have any empathy or understanding? I think I found that really interesting.
Antrim: Sebastian, what were you thinking when you were asked to play Trump? Because I think a lot of actors would say no, or be scared of it, or be like, are you crazy?
Sebastian Stan: I think I’ve had quite a few people say this movie might not be a good idea, but it started to seem like a good idea to me. And then I thought it was even more like, okay, well, it would be really exciting if the right person came along to play Roy Cohn – obviously, and then we found Jeremy. The director, Ali Abbasi, is Iranian and grew up in Copenhagen, and it was interesting for me to have that perspective as an outsider. He didn’t play for the blue team or the red team, he was from the outside looking in and I think we were very far apart in the trenches.
Chloe Mahler: Did you realize from the beginning that a film about Trump would be controversial, dangerous, and difficult to release?
SABAL: Absolutely. I mean, you know you’re playing with fire — how could we not know that? But I don’t think it had any impact on how we as artists viewed it. I think we viewed it as a work and a film about these two people and their relationship.
Mahler: The Cannes Film Festival got into trouble when it was released, and then Trump’s lawyers threatened to sue. Did you foresee that?
Stan: Of course, it sounds predictable. But I didn’t anticipate how difficult it would be to raise money.
Strong: Also, to be honest, I think I expected this movie to be a big hit at the Cannes Film Festival. But to be honest, everybody is scared to touch it. I think they’re afraid of lawsuits and consequences, afraid of Trump, so now that it’s going to be on 1,500 screens this Friday or something like that, I think it’s something that people have to see.
Antrim: What resonated so strongly with me was that the film didn’t feel like a propaganda film to me, or that it had any particular overt message. I mean, it’s actually quite a disturbing film for that reason.
Strong: I like to believe that we all have an innate instinct about other people. I think if you watch this movie, you can not only learn about Trump, but you can learn about yourself through him.
Antrim: That’s definitely my experience. [To Stan:] I think it’s interesting that your character, Trump, is someone you’re sympathetic to, if not at the beginning of the movie. I wonder when he’s going to knock on the door and collect the rent or something like that.
Strong: A lot of people don’t know he did that.
Antrim: By the end of the movie, Jeremy, your character, Roy Cohn, is an incredibly tragic figure.
Strong: Yeah, it’s a situation where the apprentice overpowers the master, and historically that’s what’s happened. But I think, you know, what’s exciting and challenging is that these two stone-hearted people say they’re not stone-hearted. They’re people with a history and a past, and they make choices, and different things shape them, and let’s see what those things are.
Antrim: The transformation that Sebastian has gone through in this movie is incredible. It’s physical. It’s verbal. It’s just the way he moves.
Malle: You made her look very charming.
STRONG: I mean, look, if you go back to his appearance on the Oprah show in 1988, he and Ivana were both on the show. I mean, he’s very charming. He’s very convincing. He comes across as strong. He comes across as the defender of the country. I mean, these are qualities that we still see today. I think even if you dial it back even further, okay, you’re talking about an ideas guy, I think what I was turned off by was just the potential that I thought he had at some point. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with acknowledging that, because by acknowledging it, you can see how much the turnout was – and in some ways, that’s sad
Mahler: Jeremy, I’m wondering what is the thing that surprised you the most about Roy Cohn. Because I was excited to see his collection of frogs.
SABEL: I mean, frogs are amazing. You know, his room was full of frog figurines and stuffed frogs, and he had a Mickey Mouse sign on his door that said “Roy.” Even as an adult, he’s extremely childish. He lives in a universe without consequences. He’s a man full of wonder. And a terrifying one. So you could say he’s a monster, but for Roy, it’s like going to the circus and eating the bumblebee tuna that they leave there for him. He spent most of the year water skiing on the Hudson River.
Mahler: Really?
Strong: He’s at Studio 54. He was a great lawyer and he represented everybody. Everybody goes to the 68th Street party. He could be extremely brutal. And the lies, the cruelty and the brutal destruction of people’s lives.
Maley: I love the fashion in the movies. Were you involved in these decisions?
SABEL: Roy was very arrogant. You know, he would do 200 sit-ups every morning. He basically starved himself to death. He would weigh himself every day. He maintained his weight. I know exactly how much he weighed. The funny thing is, if you wear the wrong suit, you can lose a lot of character. He had these Dunhill suits that fit a certain way that emphasized a certain muscularity, which he considered his most distinctive feature – not that he was a muscular man, but he had that muscular thing about him.
Malle: I have to say, here at Askume.com, we are big fans of your clothes. We think your style is great. The young people at Askume.com are big fans of Jeremy Strong’s red carpet looks.
SABEL: I mean…thank you. It was just accident and chance. I have very strong instincts, you know? For example, I went through a phase when there was a time when I would only wear grey for a couple of years. I only wear navy blue.
Malle: A few years!
Strong: I only wore navy for a few years.
Malle: Sorry, okay.
Strong: There was a time when I was a kid and would only wear neon clothes.
Antrim: Oh yeah, I have one too.
Strong: You know, we all do that. But I appreciate clothes and like them. And then everything else was guided by instinct.
Mahler: Sebastian, if someone were to play you in a film, how would they dress?
Stan: I think just…black. Michael Fisher is my stylist. Sometimes I tell him, I don’t know if these sneakers are going to work, but other than that…sometimes I’m really like, Mike? I mean, did you see that pink dress I wore to the Met Ball two years ago? I mean, it’s not something I would ever wear.
Strong: I think it’s kind of stupid.
Stan: I mean, it’s great, but my mom, even today… She had a neighbor from Italy, and she said, you look terrible. How could you do that? Still.
Malle: Well, we’re still talking about it!
